长弓 发表于 2007-10-13 18:32:04

[原创]与yfieng议《十问HR——兼答sozb》中的几个观点

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><font size="6"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">由于工作和时间方面的原因,我并没能从头到尾阅读完这场论战所涉及的全部文章,但看完</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">兄充满火药味的《十问</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">HR</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">——兼答</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">sozb</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">》,还是忍不住说两句,不系统、不严谨,只是个人之见的只言片语。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #404040; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt;"><p></p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #404040; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt;"><p><font face="" size="6">&nbsp;</font></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><font size="6"><span style="COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: ''; mso-hansi-font-family: ''; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt;">一、</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: red; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt;"><font face="">yfieng</font></span><span style="COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: ''; mso-hansi-font-family: ''; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt;">在</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">《十问</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">HR</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">——兼答</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">sozb</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">》中说:“人力资源不管你有没有开发出来,他永远都是企业最有价值的资源,也是企业发展之本,这个道理大家都无异议。但人力资源管理做没做好,他展现的结果就差别大了。”</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p></p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><font size="6"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">1</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">、我想除了人力资源这个说法,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">兄应该也还听过“人力成本”、“人力资本”之类的概念吧!如果听过的话,我想</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">兄应该明白:人力资源不经过很好的开发,那他还真可能只是一种成本;而经过很好的开发,甚至可以超越资源,成为一种资本。就象粮食一样,你说他重不重要,当然重要,但是把种子撒在地里后,不耕耘、不施肥、不收割,能产出粮食?对不起,好像不行,徒然浪费种子!春耕秋收的行业是农业,耕耘于土地之上的是农民;人力资源的行业是人力资源管理,呕心沥血于这个行业的则是</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">兄口中的人力资源从业者。所以,对于</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">这句话的前半句我不敢苟同!</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p></p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><font size="6"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #404040; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt;"><font face="">2</font></span><span style="COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: ''; mso-hansi-font-family: ''; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt;">、</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">“人力资源管理做没做好,他展现的结果就差别大了”,后半句我相当认同,有人耕耘的青纱帐和无人问津的野草地差别当然大啦!但这不正好说明人力资源管理的重要性吗?没种子固然种不出粮食,但没有农民,种子自己就长出粮食了?所以,像</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">这么高明的朋友,实在不应该过分纠缠于这种先有鸡还是先有蛋的问题。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #404040; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p></p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #404040; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt;"><p><font face="" size="6">&nbsp;</font></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><font size="6"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">二、</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: red; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt;"><font face="">yfieng</font></span><span style="COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: ''; mso-hansi-font-family: ''; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.5pt;">在</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">《十问</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">HR</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">——兼答</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">sozb</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">》中说:“重要也得有个标准不是,也得有个比较不是,还得分个时候是不是。星爷的《国产零零七》说,就算是一条内裤,一份手纸,都有它的重要作用。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">HRM</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">当然重要,否则不会作为企业管理的重要学科之一,但是什么时候重要,和谁比重要,做了什么才重要,这恐怕才是我们真正要辩明的地方。”</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p></p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><font size="6"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">用星爷的对白来跟人力资源管理做对比,很风趣,但却很不礼貌,而且也很不恰当。首先是“什么时候重要”。那我想问,企业什么时候需要人?其次是“和谁比重要”,那我想问,你认为什么比人重要?最后是“做了什么才重要”,那我就举个例子:明朝万历皇帝,数十年不临朝,无所作为,导致明朝灭亡的很多渊数肇始于此,你可以骂万历昏庸无道,但你能说这个皇位不重要?在这里,我想说的是,人力资源管理工作的重要性并不以做了什么而转移,而什么都没做或做得很糟糕会对企业带来很严重后果,恰恰是其重要性的体现之一。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p></p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p><font size="6">&nbsp;</font></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><font size="6"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">三、</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">兄认为,人力资源从业者最重要的品质是包容、公平、公正、正直,我深表认同!但对于下面这句话就难以接受了:</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">“至于其他技能性的东西,比如薪酬管理,绩效考核,工作分析一类的,实在是应居于次末”。</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">尤其是“次末”两字,我真是很难想像</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">会武断而偏激地为人力资源管理的这些重要工作内容如此盖棺定论。财务人员的素质常模中,谨慎、正直、廉洁、保守等品质很重要,你就能据此说财务核算、财务分析、财务预算等技术性的东西是次末?不懂财务知识但具备上述品质的人比不那么谨慎或不那么正直或不那么廉洁或不那么保守但精通财务的人做财务会做得更好?我想未必,很难想象一个谨慎、正直、廉洁、保守,但</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">123</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">都不识的人能做好财务。我觉得</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">对“技术性东西”的歧视,颇有点似当初大清帝国对西方“奇巧淫技”的轻视。“奇巧淫技”该不该轻视,历史已有定论。我的观点是,这种什么都非得分个主次,抬高一面则必须压低一面的做法毫无意义。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p></p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p><font size="6">&nbsp;</font></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><font size="6"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">四、</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">兄说:“</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">HR</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">从业者为了提高自己的身价,也常使用这一招,先反复拖出各种大理论,大论调阐释人力资源的极端重要性,而后笔锋一转,变成了人力资源管理的重要性,再偷梁换柱,最终变成了人力资源管理者的无比重要性,到了最后,变成了凡是和人力资源管理者沾边的从业者都重要的结论”</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p></p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><font size="6"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">我觉得</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">兄说的这个很正确,的确有这种现象。但我觉得这很正常,也很合乎逻辑,绝不是什么“偷梁换柱”,而是题中应有之意——人力资源管理工作重要,人力资源管理者当然也就重要!毛主席说,“枪杆子里出政权”,说明枪杆子很重要。但蒋介石美式装备的枪杆子可比毛泽东的枪杆子硬多了,结果却给赶到台湾去了,你说玩枪杆子的人重不重要?</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p></p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p><font size="6">&nbsp;</font></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><font size="6"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">所以,我觉得,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;">yfieng</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;">如果真是一种负责任的态度的话,你可以否认某些人力资源管理者不合格,尸位素餐,可以抨击人力资源管理界种种不好的现象;但绝不应该简单偏激地否认整个人力资源管理工作。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p></p></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p><font size="6">&nbsp;</font></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: Tahoma; mso-hansi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"><font size="6">不好意思,仓促成文,尚有他事,下次再论,语气、逻辑、文句有何不当之处还望海涵。</font></span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma;"><p></p></span></p><p></p>

jwzwlh 发表于 2007-10-15 02:00:16

<p>哈哈,说得比我生动多了!学习学习!</p><p></p>

yfieng 发表于 2007-10-15 09:02:43

<p>我对楼主最后的一句总结的话,深表认同,也是我对HR的全部态度。</p><p></p>

dqsvictor 发表于 2007-10-16 13:07:41

个人觉得LZ有虚抬人力资源管理部门及人力资源管理从业人员的嫌疑.

dqsvictor 发表于 2007-10-16 13:12:00

HR的实质还需要我们大家去好好的潜心研究,理解并与实践相结合。

houxiaobin 发表于 2007-10-17 23:55:51

<p>HR看这个辩论真的很有意思</p>

allen6003 发表于 2007-10-24 07:19:14

<p>有深度啊,兄弟就要去人事了,看来还是有点搞头啊!</p>

cuixinxu1986 发表于 2007-10-24 20:57:23

<p>&nbsp;有意思啊!</p>

guoliangflying 发表于 2007-10-25 10:48:51

虚心学习ing~~

tan602 发表于 2007-10-26 12:40:25

回复:文章

<p>你的文章虽短但很精辟,道理人人都懂,可真要做好人力资源管理工作实在不是易事,</p><p>你的老板要有意识,你的上级要支持,否则一切都只是简单重复的人事管理工作.</p>
页: [1] 2
查看完整版本: [原创]与yfieng议《十问HR——兼答sozb》中的几个观点